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Wednesday, September 1, 2010

Zhù Róng 祝融

Posted by Ricky Chua On 11:45 PM 30 comments
Translated description:
"The Savage Queen 野性的女王 (yě xìng dè nǚ wáng)"

Wikipedia link: Zhu Rong Wiki

Who is she:
The only female in the entire Romance of Three Kingdoms story to ever take part in battle, Zhu Rong is one fearsome woman. Not only was she brave, she was also capable in combat and intelligent. Wife of the Barbarian King, Meng Huo 孟获, she led an army to invade Shu Han 蜀汉 after her husband was cowed by Zhu Ge Liang 诸葛亮's advancing troops. She did so well in battle, in fact, that she captured 2 of Shu Han's generals; Zhang Yi 张嶷 and Ma Zhong 马忠. Her next opponents were the highly decorated generals Zhao Yun 赵云, and Wei Yan 魏延. Both these generals fled without much of a fight, but Zhu Rong smelled a rat and did not give chase. She was no fool as Shu Han had a trap set for her indeed. Yet when Wei Yan turned back to hurl insults at her, her emotions got the better of her and she gave chase. She fell into Shu Han's trap and was captured. By then, she had already left a deep impression as a woman not to be messed with.


Character ability 1: [Enforced ability] "Giant Elephant 巨象 (jù xiàng)"
The tool card BARBARIANS 南蛮入侵 has no effect on you. When any other player uses BARBARIANS and the card's effects are concluded, you will acquire the BARBARIANS card that was used.

Character ability 2: "Fearsome Blade 烈刃 (liè rèn)"
Whenever your ATTACK 杀 successfully damages your target player, you can choose to "Points Duel" with that same target player. If you win the Points Duel, you gets to take 1 card (on-hand or equipped) from the target and keep for yourself.

Ability's relation to story:
Contrary to what the game makers want you to conclude, Zhu Rong did not ride on a "Giant Elephant". That privilege was reserved for King Mu Lu 木鹿大王, an ally of the Southern Barbarians. Zhu Rong is good at taming elephants and use them in war, as well as calling them back after war.

"Fearsome Blade" could be referring to Zhu Rong's incredible knife throwing skills. It is said that she never misses at her throwing. Of course, it also has little to do with the ability mechanics of grabbing a card from the opponent. It is probably just paying tribute to her skill.

Additional info based on story:
1. Most famous achievement - Riding out to attack Shu Han and capturing Zhang Yi and Ma Zhong. Significant as this was for showing her ability, this entire scene was described in only 1 paragraph in the story.

2. Cause of death - Unknown. Zhu Rong is fictional character that the story teller added for effect. There is no record of her existing and definitely no record of her death. Thus with the closing of the chapter on Zhu Ge Liang subduing Meng Huo, no more mention is made of Zhu Rong.


FAQ and Disambiguation


1. If Cao Cao is damaged by a BARBARIANS card, who gets the card? Zhu Rong or Cao Cao?

Ans: Cao Cao will get the card. This is because Zhu Rong only gets the card after all effects have been concluded while Cao Cao gets any card that causes him damage immediately.


2. Is it possible to create a loop between Cao Cao and Zhu Rong using BARBARIANS card?

Ans: Yes.

Loop start: Any player uses barbarians. Cao Cao chooses to suffer 1 damage, and picks up the barbarians card. This takes precedence over Zhu Rong since he can pick it up immediately once he suffers damage where as Zhu Rong needs to wait till all effects are concluded.

Loop propagation 1: Cao Cao uses the barbarians he picked up. After all effects concluded, Zhu Rong picks the barbarian card.

Loop propagation 2: Zhu Rong uses the same barbarians card she picked up. Cao Cao suffers damage again and picks up the card.

Loop End:

1. Cao Cao does not pick up the card(running low on health or forcefully negated by someone else.
2, Barbarians card gets dismantled or stolen or used in another form.
3. Game is over (objective met)


4. If Zhu Rong attacked one of the Qiao sisters and they passed the attack off to someone else, would Zhu Rong points-duel the new target, or the intended Qiao?

Ans: Zhu Rong's ability should be used on the character that suffers the damage. Which means the Qiao's will not be affected by the ability, but instead the player whom she passed the damage to will be subjected.




30 comments:

  1. If

    Barbarian card was used
    and damage Cao Cao

    who get barbarian card ?
    Zhu Rong or Cao Cao ?

    Thank

    -Jagon-

    ReplyDelete
  2. Cao cao. Since zhu Rong only gets the card after it had concluded.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Yes, Cao Cao will get the card 1st.

    ReplyDelete
  4. For meng Ho and her, when Barbarians is used by her with Meng Ho on the field, would that create a loop? Because Meng Ho becomes the source of the damage would she get it back again?

    Also my friend read the card and it says that she gets the card at the end of the turn during the discard phase.

    ReplyDelete
  5. There is no loop with Meng Huo and Zhu Rong, because the Meng Huo only gets rewarded or penalized by the consequences of the card. He does not get to pick up the card. Read more on this on Meng Huo post.

    The words on the card that may confuse are 结算 (concluded) and 进入弃牌堆 (goes into the discard pile). What it means to say is that Zhu Rong gets to pick up the card from the discard pile only after its effects are concluded (everyone has used ATTACK or suffered damage etc). Your friend may have misunderstood 结算 to mean "end of her turn" and 进入弃牌堆 to mean "go into discard phase".

    ReplyDelete
  6. by the way, there IS a possible loop for barbarians card, but it is with Zhu Rong and Cao Cao.

    Loop start: Any player uses barbarians. Cao Cao chooses to suffer 1 damage, and picks up the barbarians card. This takes precedence over Zhu Rong since he can pick it up immediately once he suffers damage whereas Zhu Rong needs to wait till all effects are concluded.

    Loop propagation 1: Cao Cao uses the barbarians he picked up. After all effects concluded, Zhu Rong picks the barbarian card.

    Loop propagation 2: Zhu Rong uses the same barbarians card she picked up. Cao Cao suffers damage again and picks up the card.

    Loop End:
    1. Cao Cao does not pick up the card (running low on health or forcefully negated by someone else)
    2. Barbarians card gets dismantled or stolen or used in another form.
    3. Game is over (objective met)

    ReplyDelete
  7. What would happen if Zhu Rong attacked one of the Qiaos and they passed the attack off to someone else. If it then hits, would Zhu Rong get to use her ability, Fearsome Blade, and points duel? Would she points duel the new target, one only Da Qiao, Xiao Qiao, or no one since the attack didn't hit the original target?
    -My guess is that Zhu Rong could duel Xiao Qiao because as you say, "Whenever Xiao Qiao receives any damage..." so Zhu Rong technically caused damage to Xiao Qiao, so they could points duel. Da Qiao however simply diverts the attack so Zhu Rong would not be able to points duel her.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Tough question.

    According to Zhu Rong's ability, it says "Whenever Zhu Rong's ATTACK 杀 SUCCESSFULLY damages the target player". There is some detail lost in translation there, but the intended meaning is to use the ability on the character that suffers the damage. Which means Xiao Qiao will not be affected by the ability, but instead the player whom she passed the damage to will be subjected.


    Contrast this with "Unicorn Bow":

    When the attack "causes damage" to your target player, it need not result in the loss the health. So in this case, Xiao Qiao would have to lose a horse even if she passed the damage along, because she received the damage first.

    ReplyDelete
  9. For xiao qiao's ability to take effect, she has to receive the damage first in order to transfer it. Therefore, if she took damage, then the attack was successfully carried out, so zhu rong should be able to points duel with her? Because if not, then xiao qiao can just deflect the damage back to zhu rong, which would prevent her from point dueling.

    ReplyDelete
  10. @Anonymous
    Qn: "For xiao qiao's ability to take effect, she has to receive the damage first in order to transfer it. Therefore, if she took damage, then the attack was successfully carried out, so zhu rong should be able to points duel with her? Because if not, then xiao qiao can just deflect the damage back to zhu rong, which would prevent her from point dueling. "

    Ans: you are right. Zhù Róng 祝融 can choose to points duel before Xiǎo Qiáo 小乔 even though she use ""Heavenly Scent 天香" to pass on the damage because "Heavenly Scent 天香" only allows you to pass on the damage after you take it, which means Xiǎo Qiáo 小乔 have to be hit first, which in turn allows Zhù Róng 祝融 to use "Fearsome Blade 烈刃".
    Note that this does not apply for Dà Qiáo 大乔, because ""Displacement 流离" diverts the attack to another player, thus taking Dà Qiáo 大乔 out of the equation. (whatever else happens has nothing to do her)

    ReplyDelete
  11. Again the issue is due to Xiao Qiao's ability. The discrepancy lies in whether Xiao Qiao is considered to have suffered damage before passing it on, or not being damaged at all when passed on.

    As mentioned in the other posts concerning Xiao Qiao, the community is split 50-50 on this. There is no firm answer. Apologies!

    ReplyDelete
  12. if zhu rong kills a person, does she still get to point duel with the target during brink of death? or does the target have to be saved by a peach first?

    ReplyDelete
  13. I have heard that brink of death suspends all other actions until it gets resolved first.

    ReplyDelete
  14. If Zhu Rong damages Cao Pi, which ability will work first, Cao Pi or Zhu rong ?

    ReplyDelete
  15. Zhu Rong! If the effects would resolve simultaneously, they instead go in turn order.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Zhù Róng plays kill on Cao Cap when he has no cards and he takes the damage. What do happen first?
    a). Cao Cao takes the kill, so Zhù Róng can now do point duel with him.
    b) Zhù Róng cannot do point duel with him because he has no cards. After Zhù Róng ability ends he takes a card .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. B. Zhu Rong's ability is activated before Cao Cao's ability.

      Delete
    2. I don't understand why. I thought the right answer was A because the event handles are managed first. So every time something is happening the game stops to handle some ability and then the game is restored at the point it was, like the magic game stacks ...

      But anyway thank you for your answer. At least now we have a neutral opinion of it to believe and not fight hehe

      Delete
    3. Okay, I would explain it in details for you to explain to your friends. The stacks of Magic applies on SGS too, but only in the case that abilities are activated at the same timing and inserted events (like Brink of Death and death).

      In SGS, abilities can only be activated at the right timing. Zhurong's ability is activated when she deals damage to another character (after reduction of health), while Cao Cao's ability is activated when he suffers damage from a card (after reduction of health).

      [that 'immediately' in the description of Cao Cao is misguiding, believe me]

      According to the sources I have, the timing of dealing damage comes before the timing of suffering damage, so Zhurong has to choose to activate "Fearsome Blade" before Cao Cao chooses to activate "Villainous Hero". Since Cao Cao does not have on-hand cards at the timing of Zhurong dealing damage, Zhurong cannot activate "Fearsome Blade".

      Hopefully this can help you.

      Delete
    4. Hi 零時色,
      Thank you for your answer,
      It helps!

      Delete
    5. Let me ask 2 situations more:

      Cao Cao has 1 life left and 1 card in hand which is Peach.
      Zhurong atacks and damages him.

      Now:
      Does the brink-of-death activate before Zhurong can activate his ability?
      So:
      A) Cao Cao uses peach to heal, as a consequence Zhurong cannot activate the ability and Cao Cao takes the atack that damaged him?
      OR
      B) Zhurong can point duel Cao Cao, who loses the Peach and cannot heal himself dying...?

      And my second and more complex question:

      - Zhurong FIRE attacks Cao Cao who does not dodge and is shackled to Sima Yi (sitting in his left) and Xiahou Dun (sitting in his right).
      - Sima Yi has 1 life left, but does have a peach.
      - Cai Wen Ji is the 5th player and wants to use her ability after all 3 Cao Cao, Sima Yi and Xiahaou Dun are damaged.
      - Zhurong also wants to use her ability agains every player.
      Assuming that Zhurong and Cai Wen Ji do have enough cards, put this in order please:

      a) Zhurong damages Cao Cao.
      b) Zhurong uses his ability against Cao Cao.
      c) Cao Cao uses his ability.
      d) Cai Wen Ji uses her ability on Cao Cao.
      e) Zhurong damages Sima Yi through the chains.
      f) Sima Yi uses peach.
      g) Zhurong uses her ability against Sima Yi.
      h) Sima Yi uses his ability.
      i) Cai Wen Ji uses her ability on Sima Yi.
      j) Zhurong damages Xiahou Dun through the chains.
      k) Zhurong uses her ability against Xiahou Dun.
      l) Xiahou Dun uses his ability.
      m) Cai Wen Ji uses her ability on Xiahou Dun.

      If I understand the above, I think I will be able to understand any situation in the game hehe.
      I understand the preference on damage against being hurt, as per what you said.
      But I don't know yet what's the right time for Cai Wen Ji to use her ability (after damage and before being hurt? or after being hurt?) also I don't know if abilities go before chain propagates damage or so. Well, ordering the above situation will give me the answer I want I guess :)

      Thanks
      n)
      o)
      p)

      Delete
    6. I forgot to mark the "notify me" option.

      Delete
    7. According to QSanGuoSha online game, that's the answer to my questions:

      Question 1: A.
      Question 2: The order is correct as I wrote it, so: a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,m

      I recreated it creating a game with the above characters and reproducing the same situation.

      I hope that can help somebody.

      Delete
    8. God bless, very well put

      Delete
    9. Sorry I did a mistake when I wrote the solution. The following steps never happened:
      g) Zhurong uses her ability against Sima Yi.
      k) Zhurong uses her ability against Xiahou Dun.

      The reason is that:

      Character ability 2: "Fearsome Blade 烈刃 (liè rèn)"
      Whenever your Attack 杀 successfully damages your TARGET player

      In the above example, your target player was Cao Cao, so he is the only one against who you can use this ability.

      Note that in http://www.englishsanguosha.com/shu/zhu-rong says that you can do steps g and k, but both the translation of the ability and the FAQ above are wrong. Believe me.

      Delete
  17. If Yu JI verbalizes a card as BARBARIANS and no one doubts it, Will the Faux BARBARIANS be obtained by Zhu Rong when it has concluded?
    I am almost certain that once it hits the discard pile it will no longer be considered a BARBARIANS and therefore she can not retrieve it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are right. Zhurong can acquire BARBARIANS only when that card is used as BARBARIANS and the card is actually BARBARIANS. Same rule applies to Xun You's "Contrivance".

      Delete
  18. Can Zhu Rong (or the target) choose which card he acquires (or gives to Zhu Rong) or does this happen at random by drawing.

    ReplyDelete

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